Curse

urania · Nov 23, 2010, 09:34 PM // 21:34

We all know how long the restart sessiosn take (especially) on Ancestral's Lands (only CA restart sessions beat it).
We all know how pointless it is to keep AB map choice dependant on pve.
We all know AB would be far more enjoyable if maps were simply randomly chosen on entering or would be randomly mixed up in a daily rotation setup (similar to codex skill deck rotation).
We all know AB would thrive then because we would not be stuck on Ancestral Lands which is basically the most boring and unchallenging map of all AB maps.
We all know AB can be more enjoyable than RA synch.
We all know it wouldn't take much to do that (or so we like to assume).
So why can't they simply do that minor tweak and make AB (again) enjoyable as it was during the times when matches took place on Luxon home maps?

ogre_jd · Nov 23, 2010, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

We all know how pointless it is to keep AB map choice dependant on pve.

Perhaps the Kurzicks just need to get better? Unless the wiki needs updating, the border (and thus the AB map) changes based on how the last 3 hours of Alliance Battles went. ie, it's based on PvP, not PvE.

Spiritz · Nov 23, 2010, 11:02 PM // 23:02

beaten to it - but yes pve wise - factioned earned in pve does nothing to ab maps - the only relevent thing is the borders in pve change in relation to pvp.That is to say if lux are winning more ground then in pve luxons take over several kurz maps / towns and vice versa.
If you need to - check wiki as that explains it all

urania · Nov 23, 2010, 11:19 PM // 23:19

that still leaves 6 other indisputable facts.

FallenAngel_ · Nov 23, 2010, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

We all know AB would be far more enjoyable if maps were simply randomly chosen on entering or would be randomly mixed up in a daily rotation setup (similar to codex skill deck rotation).

Then that would remove the fact that one side is being pushed back.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 24, 2010, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

We all know how long the restart sessiosn take (especially) on Ancestral's Lands (only CA restart sessions beat it).

Go luxon and there's no wait at all. If there is it's usually because there aren't enough luxons.

Quote:

We all know how pointless it is to keep AB map choice dependant on pve.

This one's been cleared up already.

Quote:

We all know AB would be far more enjoyable if maps were simply randomly chosen on entering or would be randomly mixed up in a daily rotation setup (similar to codex skill deck rotation).

Given the current skewed sides that would result in 500-1 victories on kaanai. Also I don't like the idea of entering an unknown map, I like to run build dependent on what map it is. (Running trip melee would be kind of a bummer if you end up attacking deep.)

Quote:

We all know AB would thrive then because we would not be stuck on Ancestral Lands which is basically the most boring and unchallenging map of all AB maps.

It's not boring, its size lets you run some interesting builds. The boring part is just a result of lack of rotation.

Quote:

We all know AB can be more enjoyable than RA synch.

AB is simply one of the best formats. GvG and old CB aside.

Quote:

We all know it wouldn't take much to do that (or so we like to assume).
So why can't they simply do that minor tweak and make AB (again) enjoyable as it was during the times when matches took place on Luxon home maps?

Don't fix it if it's not broken. Recall they wouldn't have had to do much for TA to make it playable? And when asked to do just a little, what happened?

The fact is simply that more people are kurzicks which results in the good players dominating on the luxon side. I have no idea why not more kurzicks go luxon. Sure you may lose a bit more, but at least you get to play...

Still Number One · Nov 24, 2010, 05:46 AM // 05:46

All they have to do is increase the rewards for AB and make it more profitable to AB over FA or JQ.

More people will shift back to AB and it will get more competitive causing the maps to change constantly because good teams from both sides would be playing again. Right now everyone just does CM's cause you don't need 3 other people and the rewards are better.

carbajac · Nov 24, 2010, 06:43 AM // 06:43

I actually would like AB a whole lot less if they put the maps on rotation. I like that our teams successes affect the border dispute and are represented by what map you fight the skirmishes on. Losing this, to me, would defeat the purpose of the Factions campaign, both PvE and PvP aspects. Don't get me wrong, I really dislike that every fight is fought on Kurzick sides at all times. I used to play AB a ton until the map stopped changing and I'd go back to playing a lot more if I could at least see the other maps from time to time.

I'm not sure what the solution is but a rotating or random map is definitely not the way to go.

Shadow Sin · Nov 24, 2010, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbajac

I actually would like AB a whole lot less if they put the maps on rotation. I like that our teams successes affect the border dispute and are represented by what map you fight the skirmishes on. Losing this, to me, would defeat the purpose of the Factions campaign, both PvE and PvP aspects. Don't get me wrong, I really dislike that every fight is fought on Kurzick sides at all times. I used to play AB a ton until the map stopped changing and I'd go back to playing a lot more if I could at least see the other maps from time to time.

I'm not sure what the solution is but a rotating or random map is definitely not the way to go.

So you like the fact that the current meta is a stagnated map for the past year or so with no variation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

kedde · Nov 24, 2010, 08:07 AM // 08:07

I barely recognize people when I go to the ab outpost anymore, which is sad.
Used to know a lot of regulars before, but it seems most people have just gotten bored, now that everything is either stomping noobs on ancestral, or getting stomped because of noobs on acestral.

Variation is definitely needed, although random rotation would need testing due to timezone differences in the same way as CA has it with it's deck rotation.

Missing HB · Nov 24, 2010, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

We all know how long the restart sessiosn take (especially) on Ancestral's Lands (only CA restart sessions beat it).

We all know AB would thrive then because we would not be stuck on Ancestral Lands which is basically the most boring and unchallenging map of all AB maps.
We all know AB can be more enjoyable than RA synch.
We all know it wouldn't take much to do that (or so we like to assume).

Did you ever try to GvG or HoH at some hours ? Restart sessios are nothing compared to what you can wait sometimes....
However , /signed for other 2 reasons , since AB can be fun to play....But , considering the number of very easy things they could have done , it will probably not be considered ( + not enough people do care of AB)

drkn · Nov 24, 2010, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

So you like the fact that the current meta is a stagnated map for the past year or so with no variation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That current 'meta-map' is fully player-induced. The mechanism of AB is quite logical, clear and, actually, good. If you want to change maps more often, simply start a Kurzick guild focused on constant ABing, get better and push Luxons back, then see them in the forest again after you wake in the morning.

Random rotation is probably the worst possible fix of the boredom issue. Maybe adding results of JQ/FA matches to the line would help it, maybe adding the total faction donated via PvE might help somehow. Kurzicks getting better and more interested in AB certainly would.

Space · Nov 24, 2010, 12:00 PM // 12:00

I don't get why they still use W/L ratio to determine the map. It would give more variation if the maps just rotated from Deep Kurz through to Deep Lux and back again.

ogre_jd · Nov 24, 2010, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Space

I don't get why they still use W/L ratio to determine the map. It would give more variation if the maps just rotated from Deep Kurz through to Deep Lux and back again.

Because the front moving based on how the war is going makes the most sense. Again, Kurzicks, just get better.

urania · Nov 24, 2010, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Go luxon and there's no wait at all. If there is it's usually because there aren't enough luxons.

been there, done that. wait times are barely different (during late euro hours, at least).

Quote:

Given the current skewed sides that would result in 500-1 victories on kaanai. Also I don't like the idea of entering an unknown map, I like to run build dependent on what map it is. (Running trip melee would be kind of a bummer if you end up attacking deep.)

you must really hate gvg then.
it's ab - you can be successful with virtually anything if you know how to play (until you actually face organised teams or synchs, at least).

Quote:

It's not boring, its size lets you run some interesting builds. The boring part is just a result of lack of rotation.

yes. watching the same map for over a year isnt boring. at all.

Quote:

AB WAS simply one of the best formats. GvG and old CB aside.

corrected that for you.

Quote:

Don't fix it if it's not broken. Recall they wouldn't have had to do much for TA to make it playable? And when asked to do just a little, what happened?

i take it the boring defensive meta during rawr days (and it was agreed by rawr themselves it was boring) wasnt broken either.
so because boring does not equal broken it need not be balanced. admittedly, the matter at hand is different from the gvg version of boring, but the point was, just because something is boring and not broken it does not by default mean it doesnt need at least a small improvement. even skill "balancing" izzy used to do was often meant to shake up boring and stale metas, so no reason not to use the same approach in this case.

Quote:

The fact is simply that more people are kurzicks which results in the good players dominating on the luxon side. I have no idea why not more kurzicks go luxon. Sure you may lose a bit more, but at least you get to play...

if they will use the same strategy in GW 2 (in world pvp, at least) you will be up for a very, very fun game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Did you ever try to GvG or HoH at some hours ? Restart sessios are nothing compared to what you can wait sometimes....
However , /signed for other 2 reasons , since AB can be fun to play....But , considering the number of very easy things they could have done , it will probably not be considered ( + not enough people do care of AB)

sorry, i dont think we mean the same hours. i was getting the restarts because of TOO many players, not too few. im referring to late, not early eu hours, after all.

it would be very easy to shake things up for the better. in my opinion, at least, but Anet's policy tends to differ on that.

Bobby2 · Nov 24, 2010, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by karla

(if maps...) would be randomly mixed up in a daily rotation setup

/signed

For Great F***ing Justice

but this isn't the suggestion board luv =3

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 24, 2010, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

you must really hate gvg then.
it's ab - you can be successful with virtually anything if you know how to play (until you actually face organised teams or synchs, at least).

What? If you AT you know exactly which map you will be playing on and can build accordingly. Even at ladder play you usually pick a hall suited to the build you run. The same system applies to AB, where AL is basically the only map where you can be highly successful in running a split build.

The argument that "if you know how to play you can play whatever" is a bit silly. Sure you can make a smurf guild and farm low ranked guilds on the ladder. That still doesn't change the fact that with evenly matched sides it will come down to build choice. Not running at least one nuker on AL is seriously gimping yourself.

urania · Nov 24, 2010, 11:05 PM // 23:05

you seriously misunderstand AB.
its not all about CAPPING, its a lot about SKIRMISH matches (which is what i like about ab - its closest to TA in that regard, apart from mob fests) and trust me, your so-called nuker will be but a nuisance vs proper team. i actually dont remember when i last play with a fire ele (mind blast, not some savannah heat or sf garbage). usually, 2 good warriors and a necro, a ranger or a mesmer just roll through virtually everything. when my side loses its more often than not thanks to 8 other kurzicks who dont quite know what they're doing.

given your absolute certainty nukers are a must on AL, i have to ask: do YOU know what you're doing?

as for gvg - AT is just a small part of the "randomness" when looking for opponents in a normal gvg match.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 24, 2010, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

you seriously misunderstand AB.
its not all about CAPPING, its a lot about SKIRMISH matches (which is what i like about ab - its closest to TA in that regard, apart from mob fests) and trust me, your so-called nuker will be but a nuisance vs proper team. i actually dont remember when i last play with a fire ele (mind blast, not some savannah heat or sf garbage). usually, 2 good warriors and a necro, a ranger or a mesmer just roll through virtually everything. when my side loses its more often than not thanks to 8 other kurzicks who dont quite know what they're doing.

given your absolute certainty nukers are a must on AL, i have to ask: do YOU know what you're doing?

as for gvg - AT is just a small part of the "randomness" when looking for opponents in a normal gvg match.

AB is not about skirmish matches sorry. Well I suppose you can play it like that, but it's not the optimal approach to win. (Just to avoid possible confusion: "capping" alone isn't either.)

I'm going to have to be honest enough to admit that I know what I'm doing.

(On gvg): For regular ladder play there is also this thing that makes the team with lower rating(outside smurfs and heavy guesting being the worse team) getting the home map advantage. So building to fit your home map makes perfect sense.

And yes, on AL you absolutely MUST run a nuker in order to be "competitive". If you rely on your allies to do the nuking for you that's fine since they often run eles. But if you are attacking deep and none of the teams bothered to bring an ele I can guarantee you you would lose every single time if I was defending and things were otherwise relatively equal. (8 noob kurz allies vs 12 synced luxons obviously doesn't count)

Btw, to prove how pro I am at AB: I'm in right now and my score is 4500 and counting...

urania · Nov 24, 2010, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

AB is not about skirmish matches sorry. Well I suppose you can play it like that, but it's not the optimal approach to win. (Just to avoid possible confusion: "capping" alone isn't either.)

I'm going to have to be honest enough to admit that I know what I'm doing.

what we do, when we see luxons are speedcapping, is we just run the way we came from from our newly capped shrine and kill them while they're trying to cap. if they wanna run away good for us, we cna chase them to the next shrine they capped. never failed us so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

(On gvg): For regular ladder play there is also this thing that makes the team with lower rating(outside smurfs and heavy guesting being the worse team) getting the home map advantage. So building to fit your home map makes perfect sense.

you cannot predict whether your opp will have a higher or lower rating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

And yes, on AL you absolutely MUST run a nuker in order to be "competitive". If you rely on your allies to do the nuking for you that's fine since they often run eles. But if you are attacking deep and none of the teams bothered to bring an ele I can guarantee you you would lose every single time if I was defending and things were otherwise relatively equal. (8 noob kurz allies vs 12 synced luxons obviously doesn't count)

Btw, to prove how pro I am at AB: I'm in right now and my score is 4500 and counting...

sorry, but you're wrong.

and what score are you referring to?